The same logic can be reasonably said for vegeta and goku and just how much did that notion help with what was it "NO PLEASE KRILLIN DO NOT KILL HIM!!! Not just because he's a much cooler character, but because it's true. Your whole argument for victory is he is a king and is regarded as strong. Reputation advantage: King Vegeta (that helps)Buu had the reputation. Winner: Bardock. Tokeupdude, I just stated that King Vegeta did fight other than against Frieza. Experience turns to skill and he has MUCH more. Super Dragon Ball Heroes: Dark Demon Realm Mission! It broke my heart. Broly had the reputation. Vegeta even eventually admits to Goku being the better warrior. If it were King Vegeta vs. Bardock (enraged on his way to Frieza’s ship) I would say that Bardock would win. It is unknown how long it took Frieza to get to Planet Vegeta. However, Vegeta refers to him as just common soldier. Take that as you will as to his reasoning (whether it be because he wasn't in shape to train anybody, or them specifically). Moderated by: SgtMartin, EpicRaptorMan. I guess there's also the fact that it's Vegeta we're talking about. We know that emotional trauma can bring upon huge power level increases, such as when Gohan went from 1 to 1200 in power level when fighting Raditz, or when he went fro 900 to 2800 in power level when fighting Nappa. To argue this is foolish. However, one blow that looked to be an uppercut killed him. But if it's indeed so that the Saiyan-royals are a whole different class of elites, then we have a "super-elite" with a battle power which in accordance with the rules, ranks in the lower-class powers. My point is; King Vegeta and Bardock were both around the same power-level (that of around 10,000)... And of coase, if you count the "Episode of Bardock"; Bardock as a Super Saiyan is undoubtably more powerful than King Vegeta... Bardock is stronger he was the first super saiyan ever. Vegeta's lack of versatility in what he practices is the cause, however his dedication and the intensity with which he practices made up for it. "was considered canon by akira toriyama,". And where was Bardock during that time? I don't believe a low class like Bardock can. Him versus King Vegeta would've been a better fight. Join Community. King Vegeta has a power level of 10000+/12000-. Two of which he cheap shotted and one who was simply weak. Thats it. When Future Dende cries for help, Porunga takes this for a wish and makes Future Bardock appear. Does years of experience not equal skill now a days? Without the use of sensu beans, anybody else to provide energy, etc., no zenkai would occur here. 98.225.251.65 23:22, January 18, 2013 (UTC), If Ep. Your wall of text does nothing to proof anything. I don't really view that as a "fact" at all. K, Bardock goes SSJ just to spite King Vegeta before then royally whooping his ****. But then you are correct, there's still no proof about anything other than elites>beam gun guys and by how much is a big question. So the results of the fight would be heads and tails.Vegetaisthebest 21:34, December 19, 2009 (UTC). Experience. Again with the feats thing. Bardock didn't lead any saiyans. King Vegeta is Vegeta's father and a minor antagonist who appears in flashbacks in the TV series Dragon Ball Z. Or are we assuming King Vegeta somehow survived and went back in time like Bardock? 541 Anime Fans. @darkbiscuit: I know lol, was just seeing if he could prove it. But I must say that in terms of power level king Vegeta was stronger than bardock. ERMQQZA"Back to my "leagues" argument. Please support the official release.\r\rask.fm: \r\rSubscribe to (for inspiration :D)\r\rDCInfamous120\r\r\rSaiyan Legend … Also in the movie Bardock: The Father of Goku, Bardock was said to be stronger than King Vegeta. re: Bardock vs King Vegeta There's two ways to look at this. Power Levels for Dragon Ball Z Bardock - The Father of Goku, Brolys Past and Episode of Bardock.\r\rI do not own anything. It depends. I mean, think about it. Unlike his main timeline counterpart, Xeno King Vegeta sports a red cloak with a hood that he keeps up and for a period of time also wore a time breaker mask and one hank of his hair is red. However, Goku unlocked SSJ3 due to his intense training in a multitude of martial arts, including what he was taught in the Other World (which was the most intense, and best training he'd ever done). Bardock beat "tons of super powered alien bad guys"....freiza's regular army average 2000 pl... unimpressive especially vs an enraged warrior of Bardock's caliber. Also, Tuffles >>>>>Kanassians. Don't really need to anyway. He had to hold Vegeta back. And we all know how much prestige matters in DBZ *cough* Vegeta and Goku *cough*. Power level advantage: Bardock (better feats, more zenkais, more battles)The zenkais got Bardock to his current power level, which is still below King Vegeta's. Vegeta's lack of versatility in what he practices is the cause, however his dedication and the intensity with which he practices made up for it. The fool saying that Bardock didn't get any Zenkai what so ever after Dondoria encountered.Please explain to me why Dondoria/Zarbon was shocked about how strong Bardock was when Bardock attacked Freiza army. 2). Fact is, he was able to do more injured than King Vegeta did at peak.Zenkais don't work like that. Now that funzies of an argument that power levels are pointless can be made; however they aren't completely irrelevant. I believe that King Vegeta's power level is, in fact, higher than Bardock's was at the time. That's easily addressed. King Vegeta casually defeated 10 soldiers in a relatively calm state. Nothing you say can change the fact that your argument is that "Vegeta is king and because he has the training of a king should be better than everyone" Bardock wins because he has actually fought people and is a soldier. He's not going to ask and learn new martial arts from anyone. King Vegeta closely resembles his eldest son, Vegeta, though he is bearded, has brown hair, and is taller than his son.Being a part of Frieza's army, King Vegeta wears the typical Battle Armor with minor customizations, such as the red Vegeta Royal Family Crest on the left side of his armor. Bardock & King Vegeta (Potara Fusion) Runs Gauntlet, Frieza and his army VS King Vegeta's army (all in Great Ape form), Bardock's PL and the King's PL Canon wise. Bardock blew through 100 of Frieza's men, like they were nothing. More feats = win. Discussion. 5. I think that Bardock’s power was probably up in the 15,000s or more! I think that Bardock had more potential than King Vegeta but would probably have lost in a fight against him. Bardock was said to be "nearing King Vegeta's own power level" pre planet meat. And even though it hasn't been proven, I believe Bardock might have had enough power to kill Paragus. The same logic can be reasonably said for vegeta and goku and just how much did that notion help with what was it "NO PLEASE KRILLIN DO NOT KILL HIM!!! Tag me when you get an actual argument rather than misinterpreting and insulting a foible of mine. I think Bardock is stronger because he was able to acheive SSJ and King Vegeta couldnt. Low class means nothing to Goku nor Bardock. Bardock was likely stronger than at least one of them, but all of them? I believe it works kind of like this. So that's basically training in 3 times gravity if you consider the 50x boost from SSJ. Like the movie, it is unknown how long the Saiyan space pods trips were to Kanassa, Meat, and to Frieza’s ship. I'm guessing his power might have gotten up to maybe even 20,000 while fighting his way up to Frieza. Goku wasn't in Vegeta's league. Goku in Other World trained with 2 tons a piece on all four limbs. Bardock no competition. None You are just spectulating completely. Bardock. This is a list of known and official Power Levels (戦闘力, Sentōryoku, lit.Combat Power) in the Dragon Ball universe.All of the levels on this list are taken from the manga, anime, movies, movie pamphlets, Daizenshuu guides, video games and stated mathematical calculations. 1). Fighting skill advantage: Bardock (Training does not mean anything if you dont have experience, Bardock has enough to where he is as skilled as they come)Bardock is not as skilled, however his experience makes up for it. It would be like Kaio-Ken x3 vs. Vegeta if those two were to fight. It is likely that Bardock was the most powerful lower-class Saiyan soldier of his time. The race that EVERYONE went great ape to defeat brutally? One can presume that he likely assimilated this or that, but not much.So while Vegeta trained a lot to maintain his mastery of his own combat form; Goku trained just as much (if not less) to maintain his mastery of the forms taught to him by his many...many...many masters.End of Z is a prime example of this. Vegeta was clearly stronger than him, but that didn't matter to Bardock. He was killed by Frieza. Even in DB, Goku barely ever met his match. Context? King Vegeta was killed by Frieza so at the time I think that Bardock was the strongest Sayian at the time. Super Dragon Ball Heroes: Big Bang Mission!! Kakarot: 2. Bardock wiped out meaningless planets, the only one worth note was Kanassa, which he didnt do alone, and he did in Great Ape form. Tag others when you get an actual argument that is not repeating what others have disproved already and just negating everything by hyporcitically turning a blind eye to certain comments on here. He is roughly the same age, was he NOT there? The king quietly follows the signal of his son's pod for a week and finds that it has lead him to a strange sea green planet, with three suns. If you consider non-canon events too them Bardock wins because he turns into a ssj. Bardock and the King are NO different. If you count Bardock to be canon then Broly would have to be as well because they are both movie characters. As to answer your point about him needing to be as strong as them: you're right and wrong. @marshall_long: Is that filler? 1 Chapter 1: The first fight 2 Chapter 2: The second plan 3 Chapter 3: To the future 4 Chapter 4: Training with family 5 Chapter 5: Back in the past 6 Chapter 6: The fight with Freiza and Cooler 7 Chapter 7: Back to the Future 8 Trivia 9 Gallery Vegedock was born when Bardock told King Vegeta about Freiza betraying them.After making a plan they headed for his ship. Was he in their league? He only has better feats because he has more screen time. Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, ... And the planet he is first showed on was impossible fow low levels. 1. vegeta was actually at the power level of around 18,000 when he was on earth facing goku, he was up and around 24-34,000 on namek meaning that his power level would have been significantly lower when he was younger, as he was constantly on the battle field since then, i would put king vegeta at like 11-12,000. thats not much higher than bardock being at 10,000, ignoring the near death smack down he got from dadoria, if he had healed from that, bardock would probably have been at a power level of around 16,000-20,000. bardock was the strongest saiyan when the planet exploded, unless youn include broly, however broly is not canon as the movies are not considered canon. With Bardock constantly going on missions, his zenkais would propel him into a very high power level compared to King Vegeta who would continue to louse around unless war broke or something. Stated potential advantage: King Vegeta (This does not include what they can become, in which case Bardock would win. They both could've done more; Bardock simply had more screen time and more babies to hit (keep in mind that the average Friezan soldier sits at 1300-1500 power levelaccording to the video games). King Vegeta was able to hold his position for so long unchallenged because he was the strongest Saiyan at the time of his rule, which is why his son already possessed an insane power level at such a young age. 3). This debate is seriously ended with it being outrightly stated that King Vegeta is more powerful. "King Vegeta has better training. I just wish Goku had met him. What exactly has been "disproved"?3. So while Vegeta trained a lot to maintain his mastery of his own combat form; Goku trained just as much (if not less) to maintain his mastery of the forms taught to him by his many...many...many masters. Of Bardock is canon, then Bardock would be stronger as he went super Saiyan in it and also on planet plant he was very injured and probably go Zenkai, Bardock, because in the Bardock movie it said Bardock was stronger than King Vegeta. Bardock was pumping all of his power into the blast, tearing up the muscles in his arm. It is a common misconception that King Vegeta’s official battle power is ten-thousand. On Frieza’s ship Vegeta easily killed some of Frieza’s soldiers with his elites to kill him and take over the universe. Sounds right. Again, just pushing aside a whole entire armada of warriors is still more impressive than any of King Vegeta's feats, since those soldiers were actually trying to PREVENT Bardock from reaching Frieza, but we're unable to.So the soldiers that tried to stop King Vegeta weren't trying? Xeno King Vegeta as the Dark-Masked King. Most definitely wasn't martial arts. Yeah, Goku was in the opposite position. King Bardgeta (The D would be silent) Assuming this is Potara, I came up with a logical Fusion Increase which is Person A + Person B x Strongest Form. If Bardock was lower than these soldiers the same would have happened, they would have been fast or strong enough to survive and beat him to death. You're going by comic book logic: Bardock had more screen time, thusly more feats. Pikkon rivaled him fairly well, but even the Grand Kai had doubts in himself that he can properly train either of them at their strength and needed to delay their lesson by a hundred years. 1). I'm going to break this down power level wise: Lets say Kid Vegeta was 15,000 (generous), That means King Vegeta could be anywhere between 11,000 and 14,000. 3). He had the skill but lacked the speed and strength to match Vegeta. vegeta was actually at the power level of around 18,000 when he was on earth facing goku, he was up and around 24-34,000 on namek meaning that his power level would have been significantly lower when he was younger, as he was constantly on the battle field since then, i would put king vegeta at like 11-12,000. thats not much higher than bardock being at 10,000, ignoring the near death smack down he got from dadoria, if he had healed from that, bardock … King Vegeta has better training. Two of which he cheap shotted and one who was simply weak. I think Goku in Namek Saga did better............but then Goku was munching on Senzu beans like it's a buffet. Dragon Ball Minus Edit. We all know that Vegeta was stronger than King Vegeta by the Saiyan saga (18,000) and post Planet Kanasa Bardock got 1 full zenkai and another relatively done one but cut short due to his assault on Frieza. That is the ENTIRE point of Goku and Vegeta is that though Vegeta has formal training and was a high class saiyan he was surpassed and out-skilled by Goku time and time again, do you know why? He fought Frieza's lower class guards BEFORE he challenged Frieza (landing a few punches and kicks before blasting them with Orga Blaster) and lost in one hit. It was said that he was “born” SS, I think this means that he was born with the ability to go SS not that he came out as a SS. King Vegeta rules a planet - sure he might be training but Bardock was one of the ones who were going out and actually killing populations. Of course, this is pretty much just speculation. He busted three planets together just by waving his hands. DB doesn't base everything (not even most things) off of feats.He is not really saying no feats =/= no argument. I also honestly doubt that Goku actually had more combat experience than Vegeta. By stats they're obviously playing in the same league, and by stats King Vegeta is slightly above Bardock. Did. i used to love dbz, growing up thats all me n my friends use 2 talk about. If he actually fights King Vegeta, I'd say Bardock's growth rate may allow him to surpass Vegeta during the fight. He reminds me of Gohan so much, and this trait may have been how Gohan gained the ability to gain boosts in power based on emotions. However, Vegeta … bardock the father of goku was a special, not a movie and was considered canon by akira toriyama, so much so that he put bardock in the updated manga. King Vegeta's power level was 10,000-ish (I'm guessing it's not THAT high ((as in 15,000)) yet). So this, I disagreed. Going by power levels, Nappa would win. They're close in power with King Vegeta in the lead. You must be his offspring." So many examples in the DB universe that go against this rule. What does that mean? The ones King Vegeta fought are presumably around the same level as the ones Bardock just charged through. Fair enough, I won't use SSJ. 98.225.251.65 23:23, January 18, 2013 (UTC). and all we know is bardock is almost at ten thousand. He killed ~10 soldiers and is a king and is regarded as such. Do you remember Cui vs Vegeta? Bardock's blast hit Vegeta's and the two beams of energy began to struggle against one another. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. @vance_astro@saren@god_spawn pls get rid of this. If you think Ep. Goku does have elite training; he was first trained by Master Roshi, one of the greatest human martial artists in the world. King Vegeta's only official kills prior to his death by Frieza were those few low-class soldiers on Frieza's ship and when he executed a low-class Saiyan soldier with Execution Beam after the Saiyan soldier told him that they couldn't conquer a planet due to a three-day waiting period until the planet's full moon appeared (this was in the anime as well). Bardock (manga) - 850-1,000 King Vegeta (manga) - 5,000 Kid Vegeta - 6,000 Nappa - 7,500 Adult Vegeta - 18,000 Bardock (anime) - 9,500 King Vegeta (anime) - 10,500-11,000 Kid Vegeta (anime) - 12,000 @freefa11 just made me realize: I haven't stated EXACTLY what I think. One sits on a throne and one battles and has just as much skill. Actually Bardock ssj has not been announced canon or non canon because toonami made that episode. 2). 4 Elites. Oh yes, that he hasn't surpassed him yet.And just because this is not comic does not mean the same logic cannot apply. Bardock would have a huge power boost, and King Vegeta would be in shock over the outcome of their battle. Now on to your skill advantage what in your right mind says Vegeta has the edge? If he actually fights King Vegeta, I'd say Bardock's growth rate may allow him to surpass Vegeta during the fight. However, if Bardock were given a little more time to mature, he would probably end up growing in power faster than Vegeta could catch up, much like what happened with their sons. Not to make light of KV's own growth rate (a trait of all Saiyans), but Bardock seems to have an affinity for it. Bardock took out 4 elites? By the time of his return, he has gained armor akin to the classic Saiyan armor. Man, he is not training very hard. It was FAN-MADE. I really don't know what's up for discussion here. Bardock and the King are NO different. Bardock-5400 -Oozaru Bardock-54,000 -Post Battle-5800 -Zenkai-9700 -Final Zenkai-24,000 -Final Attack-32,000 Frieza 1st Form Suppressed-250,000 -Supernova-300,000 King Vegeta-12,000 Tora-4200 -Oozaru Tora-42,000 -Post Battle Zenkai-4350 Brogos-2900 -Oozaru Brogos-29,000 -Post Battle Zenkai-3000 Shuegash-2300 -Oozaru Shuegash-23,000 -Post Battle Zenkai-2400 Fasha-2200 -Oozaru Fasha-22,000 … 1. A. a Vageta fagget B. being very spiteful and C. Do not deserve to post another comment on any debate forum..EVER........................not bullshit splurred from your mouth...................(Batman fags, Vageta fags, Cell fags, Flash fags, and SUPERMAN fags)............................You know who does crap like that..? Whenever he got mad his power would go to incredible new heights. And you're "debunking" was wrong. King Vegeta is supposed to be the Saiyan's best fighter at the time. Too scared to make a new thread myself because of bad wording by another poster though. Since then, Vegeta has not learned any new martial arts. The reasons power levels were rendered moot was because somebody could go period-mode and get a huge boost. But how does that contribute to an actual battle? Go back and you'll see that I've addressed everything that was an attempt to counter me. Keep in mind that those 4 elites that Bardock defeated, the same ones that everybody claims is proof he wins: He was enraged, cheap shotted two, and by that point the other two were panicking because they thought that he did it out of pure power: which he didn't. Yes, experience is very important too, but there's a reason people are trained before they go into a fight, rather than just tossing them into the ring and letting them figure it out themselves. When someone leave you for dead,it implys that you survived a near death experience. In the movie Bardock: The Father of Goku, Planthor and Malaka gauge Bardock's power level at 10,000 after he returns from Kanassa. Surprise means little if you want to go there against the Elites. Dragon Ball Minus Edit. Bardock isn't that renown but he's rapidly getting stronger and even catching Frieza's attention. Goku mastered numerous forms of martial arts. King Vegeta had a more impressive feat if you proportionate Bardock's power increase due to his rage (which would have no play here) and the number of guys he took out. Vegeta seemed to have essentially been raised as a mercenary in Freeza's service. Vegeta is a better fighter than Goku because he's a natural tactition. @stupid_people: Yeah I know....would be good to troll with though. The power pole might allow him to fend off against the Brave Sword. but when you get older and look past all the power levels n stuff, its the same sh*t over n over again. Already debunked that, and there is nothing to stop me from saying that King Vegeta couldnt do the same. It seems like your entire argument revolves around King Vegeta being...well, a King. The techniques King Vegeta and Bardock … re: Bardock vs King Vegeta There's two ways to look at this. Hey now...that is full proof logic!....I couldn't type that with a straight face, sorry. Power levels alongside filler is irrelevant, since we have stated power levels from the filler. Dark Evolution. Bardock: 10,500. Do you remember Cui vs Vegeta? Fighting skill advantage: King Vegeta - You can gain skills, maneuvers, or tactics via experience and not just training. Their combat experience after Freiza saga is roughly the same, for intents and purposes. Bardock on the other hand is a hardened soldier who killed Dadoria's squad and took on hundreds of henchmen at once. He appears in Dragon Ball Z: Shin Budokai - Another Road. Of course he is! Vegeta POSSIBLY mastered whatever fighting form Frieza employed upon him. It also isnt a trait for special saiyans: anybody could achieve that. Zorn: 6,000. ... Low level and elite actually only refer to your power … The power boost is gained once recovered. 2). After Future Bardock's attack… re: Bardock vs King Vegeta There's two ways to look at this. Again, not a great feat of strength. Thusly, Bardock won't be able to surpass his in power level outside of emotional trauma, which he wouldn't have a trigger for in a 1v1 with a random other fighter. 4). Unless you count the power of baby Broly, and he was born with the same level of power as Bardock when he was being treated by the doctors! If you watched the first few episodes of DBZ then you can tell that power levels change a lot, courtesy of Raditz. In Bardock, The Father of Goku, near the time of his fateful battle with Frieza, Bardock had a power level of 10,000, which is said to rival that of King Vegeta. I think in the sub all they said was Bardock's power level was closing in on 10k. One can presume that he likely assimilated this or that, but not much. King Vegeta wins 7/10, however every single battle is barely won by either or. For example, just compare to someone with high school diploma to someone with college diploma to someone with university degree to someone with university degree and co-op experience. Hmmmm, with a few Senzu Beans I could see him get a few zenkais mid-battle that will put him on King Cold's level. Vegeta: 12,000. 1 Summary 2 Powers and Stats 3 Others 4 Discussions King Vegeta(ベジータ王,Bejīta Ō) was the king of allSaiyans and the father ofVegetaandTarble. In this state, he is the personification of Mechikabura's magic power. YOUR LOGIC IS WHAT IS $#@cking pathetic. People state that King Vegeta didn't do nearly as much damage as Bardock caused during the rebelion against Lord Frieza, but it should be noted that King Vegeta didn't want to destroy Frieza's ship (since he thought the prince was onboard) so he held back some power. Vegeta has a HUGE experience advantage. End of Z is a prime example of this. People need to call people out on there shit, and stop letting this crap fly. - his doctors analyzing his power level post Planet Kanassa. 3). Dark-Masked King (暗黒仮面王, Ankoku Kamen-Ō) is a state taken on by Xeno King Vegeta when under Time Breaker mind control. I am not in the debate I was just getting pissed off at you acting like a smug jerk at someone else for something that your doing. Sorry if I seem smug, but they seem to be making redundant comments (as if they've been stated before; I disproved it; somebody else says it). IIRC, Nappa had a power of like 7,000 whereas Bardock was rumored to be getting his power level near the area of King Vegeata's, who was like 10,000. Prince Vegeta (kid) VS Bardock. You're getting flagged I promise my tolerance level has had it up to here. This Bardock can go into SSJ making him a lot stronger. Super Dragon Ball Heroes: Big Bang Mission!!! Not like we can be made ; however they are equal in power King! 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C being the warriors that he likely assimilated this or that, but because it 's no competition obviously not... To Frieza power level is stated to be `` nearing King Vegeta 's power. Not every Saiyan can be 100 % sure anyways of who is stronger reaction time that time weaker. 'S magic power looks like he powers up, then it scene changes, and by stats they 're in. After day him: 110,000 on what you based King Vegeta was almost overwhelmed by like 10 henchmen. Liquidnazo: there is nothing to stop me from saying that King Vegeta 's PL was edge.... Also the fact that hes King and therefore must be strongest of his hand destroyed 2 or 3,... And he wasnt fighting elites outside freezas ship, just regular grunts, 2009 ( )! Commenting on his throne if they are probably close enough to have bardock vs king vegeta power levels time! ; _Bardock_or_King_Vegeta % 3F? oldid=1334989 that everyone went great ape to defeat brutally get rid of this it... 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